Recently Linda McMahon, the new U.S. Secretary of Education, was interviewed by The 74 during the ASU+GSV conference in San Diego. Here are excerpts from that interview with The 74’s Greg Toppo:
“The 74: In order to dismantle the department, you have to convince seven Democrats in the Senate to get this done. What’s the plan?
McMahon: The plan is to help be partners. In fact, I had about a dozen Democrats in my office last week. I wanted to hear what they had to say. They wanted to share with me what their concerns were. I have said all along, and the President totally understands, that in order to close the Department of Education, it is an act of Congress. By the time we get to this point, hopefully they will see the benefits of education operating differently in our country.
The 74: In your session earlier, you said NAEP is ‘something we absolutely need to keep.’ But the administration has cut the research division of the department. Is NAEP ready for some sort of radical reset? Are you going to have to pull back on what NAEP does?
McMahon: We need to re-look at NAEP. Is there a better way to do NAEP? We now do it in fourth and eighth grade every other year. Is that the best thing? It’s interesting how you just keep doing something over and over again, and until you start questioning, ‘Is this the best way to do it?’ you don’t know if there is a better way. This may be the ultimate way to do it, but I do believer that people who are in this industry, there are those who can look at this and determine whether or not this is the right course to continue to take.
We may keep it the very same way that it is for a while, but we’re looking at it. How can you decide if you need to make a change if you don’t investigate it a bit?
The 74: Last NAEP question: At this point, April 8, have we made any decisions about tests or lines of testing that are not going to be continued?
McMahon: No, I mean, I think I just finished my fourth week on the job, or this is the fourth week on the job. So it’s a lot in motion at this particular time. But I just want to make clear, though, that we are doing things thoughtfully. Quickly, but thoughtfully.
The 74: I think the feeling that a lot of people have watching what’s happened with DOGE is that, yes, it’s been quick, but not so thoughtful. How do you reassure people that you’re doing things thoughtfully?
McMahon: I’ve restructured companies before, a couple of times, and you do try to cut out fat and not muscle. Sometimes you have to cut some muscle. Sometimes you cut a little deeper into the muscle than you intended, and you realize, ‘That was too deep.’ So you bring a couple of people back. I don’t think that’s necessarily chaotic. I think that is thoughtful. Who would have thought you could actually bring in a really smart, innovative group to audit the federal government?
I can only speak to the group I’ve worked with at the Department of Education. I have found them to be very savvy, very bright about how to look at the systems that they are looking at and determine where we could make cuts. I don’t find it to be chaotic, but I think whenever you’re acting swiftly and making announcements, it can seem chaotic. But it’ll settle.
The 74: Iwant to change gears a little bit, and ask about immigration. What role should schools play in enforcing federal immigration policy?
McMahon: Well, that’s not something that I’ve really delved into at Education. It’s so interesting. People ask me about the Department of Education. It doesn’t educate anyone. It doesn’t set curriculum. It doesn’t decide what books you’re going to us or hire teachers or administrators or any of that. But I think that schools have to obey the law.
The 74: Should undocumented children be entitled to free and appropriate public education?
McMahon: I think we have to follow the law with that.
The 74: But the law says, ‘Yes.’
McMahon: Until the laws change, then we’re following the law, or the schools in those states are following the law. I’m certainly not instituting any of that.
The 74: In terms of civil rights, the regional offices have been cut back quite a bit. And just considering that you’re really aggressively pursuing anti-semitism and Title IX cases, how are you going to do this effectively with so many fewer people in the actual regions?
McMahon: If you notice, it’s a joint task force. We’re doing it with the Attorney General. We’re doing it with HHS (the Department of Health and Human Services) and we’re doing it with the GSA [the General Services Administration]. It’s a joint task force combining resources to do some of this.
The 74: So you feel like that’s essentially making up for the fewer people you have in Civil Rights?
McMahon: To some extent, yes.
The 74: If all goes according to plan, if you are the dog that catches the bus, as they say…
McMahon: If I fire myself?
The 74: If Congress approves dismantling the department, do you see yourself out of a job in a year?
McMahon: I’m not really set on a timeline right now. Clearly the President would like to see this accomplished as efficiently and quickly as possible. But we want to make sure that everything is in place, that there’s nothing that’s going to slip through the cracks. All of the funding will stay in place for Title I, and for our special ed and our handicapped special needs students, and to make sure that we have our Office of Civil Rights working with other offices. Or it could be totally melded into another agency.
And also, one of the biggest areas, about a third of the budget at the Department of Education, is management of student loans. And the President’s already talked about some role for SBA [the Small Business Administration], or a pretty large role by Treasury.
The 74: So a year?
McMahon: I’m not going to guess on a timeframe.
The 74: What would be appropriate?
McMahon: When we get the job done.
The 74: So there’s no timeline at all?
McMahon: As efficient and as quickly as we can get it done.
The 74: Anything I haven’t asked you that you wanted to talk about?
McMahon: There is a bottom line here, and that it to make sure – this is the President’s wish – that we give children equal access to quality education. The test scores that we’ve seen on NAEP are totally unacceptable. What we’ve been doing isn’t working. We have to do something different. We have to do it better. And his expectation is that we put in place what can help it be the best it can be.”
If Donald Trump really believes everything Secretary McMahon answered to her final question above, then I can’t argue with any of it.
But the devil is always in the details. And with this administration, even though you can’t argue with the “why,” their “how” is so random and unpredictable.
Til tomorrow. SVB
A Better Path to Learning 
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